Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Jagattunga Govinda III]

Actually, Houthis are targeting only western ships. So, it will be a massive advantage to Indian, Chinese, Russian ships to take over business from NATO. So, even here, Houthis are not harming India in any way.

The Houthis may not target an Indian-flagged ship but it won't really matter because most of the Indian trade is facilitated by ships flying the flags of countries such as Marshall Islands, Singapore, Panama, Liberia, Gabon, etc. because of their lax regulations for shipping companies.

IMEC is not important to India. Israel is too small a country and shipping can be done directly from red sea

IMEC absolutely is important to India since it provides a much shorter alternative route to the Suez Canal as opposed to the current alternative route of having to go around the full length of the African coast via the Cape of Good Hope route. Just open a map to see the difference.

 

[Anupu]

Actually, Houthis are targeting only western ships. So, it will be a massive advantage to Indian, Chinese, Russian ships to take over business from NATO. So, even here, Houthis are not harming India in any way. IMEC is not important to India. Israel is too small a country and shipping can be done directly from red sea

They are targeting anything because they don’t have any significant isr capability. They have attacked both Russian and Chinese ships intact literally right after they promised the Chinese they won’t.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Blood+]

MF STAR is too big for ships smaller than Frigates. They should be armed with either a derivative of the Revathi (look at the kamortas) or the secondary search radar of the new Vishakapatnams and Nilgiris as primary.
(Indra Lanza)

Well, the Israelis put a smaller version of it on their corvettes if I'm not mistaken.

 

[v952010]

Multi purpose vessel

 

[binayak95]

Well, the Israelis put a smaller version of it on their corvettes if I'm not mistaken.

True. I should have said the MF STAR as we have it, which is a 3 x 3 meter panel is too power hungry for corvettes.

 

[Blood+]

True. I should have said the MF STAR as we have it, which is a 3 x 3 meter panel is too power hungry for corvettes.

Fair enough.

 

[Samej Jangir]

Hmmm.....

Chinese-owned oil tanker attacked off Yemen by Houthi rebels - Times of India

Rest of World News: A Chinese-owned oil tanker was attacked off Yemen Saturday by ballistic missiles fired by Huthi rebels, who have intensified strikes on Red Sea shippi

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Then what is this ?

Houthi Attacks: The high and low trade impact of Red Sea disruption on India

The Iran-backed Houthi militia in Yemen has caused disruptions in global trade flow due to their attacks in the Red Sea. The Suez Canal, used by ships for 12% of global trade, is currently blocked due to hostilities, redirecting ships to pass through Africa. Capital goods and fertilisers are the...

www.google.com

Elaborate

I agree that Houthis have been a bit arbitrary and random. However, that is likely due to poor ISR capability rather than intentional. Yes, some eastern ships may be hit but they will be just 10% of what western ships will face and that means over time, it is advantage for east

The Houthis may not target an Indian-flagged ship but it won't really matter because most of the Indian trade is facilitated by ships flying the flags of countries such as Marshall Islands, Singapore, Panama, Liberia, Gabon, etc. because of their lax regulations for shipping companies.


IMEC absolutely is important to India since it provides a much shorter alternative route to the Suez Canal as opposed to the current alternative route of having to go around the full length of the African coast via the Cape of Good Hope route. Just open a map to see the difference.

Yes, Houthis are not very sharp and due to the recent strategy of the west to keep changing ownership of the ships at short intervals and using shell companies to buy the ships, Houthis are even more confused and can hit the wrong target at times. But the proportion of attacks are severely skewed towards NATO countries.

As for IMEC, India-israel trade is minimal in nature. Most of the high value transaction is military equipments which can be transported in cargo planes too as though they are expensive, they are not weighing hundreds of tons. The actual loss of having to go across Africa into israel is minimal as the amount of bulk shipment is low.

They are targeting anything because they don’t have any significant isr capability. They have attacked both Russian and Chinese ships intact literally right after they promised the Chinese they won’t.

Agreed, but as I mentioned above, the proportion of attacks is skewed

 

[Jimih]

New CNS

 

[Jagattunga Govinda III]

As for IMEC, India-israel trade is minimal in nature. Most of the high value transaction is military equipments which can be transported in cargo planes too as though they are expensive, they are not weighing hundreds of tons. The actual loss of having to go across Africa into israel is minimal as the amount of bulk shipment is low.

IMEC isn't just a trade route for India and Israel though. It's an alternative route meant to connect the whole of Europe, Middle East (West Asia) and the Indian Subcontinent in the case that transporting through the Suez Canal would be infeasible (plans for this likely have been around since the ship obstruction incident in 2021). Ships carrying commodities from European countries to India and vice versa too are being forced to go around Africa.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[Samej Jangir]

IMEC isn't just a trade route for India and Israel though. It's an alternative route meant to connect the whole of Europe, Middle East (West Asia) and the Indian Subcontinent in the case that transporting through the Suez Canal would be infeasible (plans for this likely have been around since the ship obstruction incident in 2021). Ships carrying commodities from European countries to India and vice versa too are being forced to go around Africa.

IMEC is not really a practical route considering the long distance ground link which makes it extremely expensive. Why would you want to unload in Dubai and then use a long land route instead of directly unloading in Israeli Eilat and carrying the goods for a short distance on Israeli land? If that route becomes unfeasible, unload in Kuwait which also reduces land distance significantly.

 

[SammyBoi111]

 

[v952010]

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

View attachment 249438

Is it feasible to keep only nuclear attack submarine and midget submarine in force and retire all conventional submarine

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Is it feasible to keep only nuclear attack submarine and midget submarine in force and retire all conventional submarine

Why Doesn't the U.S. Navy Build Diesel Submarines?

Since the USS Nautilus (SSN-571) entered service in 1954, nuclear power has essentially defined the U.S. Navy's undersea dominance. Nuclear power simply offers performance advantages over conventional, diesel-electric submarines.

nationalinterest.org

AIP-powered submarines cost far less than nuclear-powered submarines, but they remain deadly quiet while cruising underwater at low speeds, even for weeks at a time. The technology was so successful that when the United States Navy was able to lease the HMS Gotland (A-19) for use in anti-submarine war games in 2004 it was able to "sink" the USS Ronald Reagan, the then-newly constructed $6.2 billion aircraft carrier!

The outcome was replicated multiple times and the stealthy Swedish sub was able to "run rings" against an American carrier task force.

Nuclear is Costly

Though Ensigns Walker and Krusz made a good argument for nuclear-powered submarine advantages, they actually wrote that aforementioned piece to make a case for diesel submarines – and noted several key points that suggest the U.S. Navy should consider diesel-electric boats.

"Such a high cost for a nuclear-powered fleet makes it impossible to keep pace with near-peer competitors in producing large numbers of capable submarines. Currently, Russia and China have large numbers of ingoing submarines, and the United States must keep up with both peer competitors. The U.S. industrial base is maxed out at building two Virginia-class fast attack submarines per year," Walker and Krusz wrote – and that situation has only gotten worse in the five and half years since they published their paper.

They further warned that diesel-electric technology has continued to catch up in terms of offering many of the capabilities offered by nuclear power. Moreover, diesel submarines could be built faster, which could allow the U.S. Navy's submarine force to expand – rather than shrink in size.

 

[no smoking]

Is it feasible to keep only nuclear attack submarine and midget submarine in force and retire all conventional submarine

Certainly it is feasible: the US navy has no conventional submarine at all. But that is because they are perfectly safe in their neighborhood. So, they basically don't need conventional submarines.
The problem is: India's neighbor oceans are not that safe for India.

 

[Azaad]

Certainly it is feasible: the US navy has no conventional submarine at all. But that is because they are perfectly safe in their neighborhood. So, they basically don't need conventional submarines.
The problem is: India's neighbor oceans are not that safe for India.

HaiYaa !!

How come these conventional submarines are safe for Zhongguo then Uncle Han , which has so many conventional submarine , when Zhongguo itself is surrounded by US treaty allies like Japan , RoK , Philippines & of course Taiwan over which the US could well go to war with you ?

Then there's Vietnam , Malaysia & Indonesia who aren't Treaty allies of the US but in each of the aforementioned named countries CCP has a running maritime dispute against.

Pulling logic out of your no good wumao arse again aren't we uncle Han ?

Yuan-Class (Type 039A or Type 041)

China possesses seventeen Yuan-class diesel electric attack submarines (SSKs). These submarines are 77.6 meters long with an 8.4-meter-wide beam and can travel up to 20 knots when submerged.12 Their weapons systems include torpedoes and anti-ship missiles.

Kilo-Class
China has purchased twelve Russian-origin Kilo-class submarines: two Project 877 vessels, two Project 636 vessels, and eight Project 636M vessels. The Project 877 vessels are 72.9 meters long with a 9.9-meter-wide-beam and can travel 20 knots when submerged.13 The Project 636 vessels are 72.6 meters long and can travel up to 17 knots when submerged.14 In late 2021, the PLAN retired the two Project 877 vessels, and China currently possesses ten Russian-origin Kilo-class submarines.15

Song-Class (Type 039)
China possesses thirteen Song-class diesel electric attack submarines (SSKs). These submarines are 74.9 meters long with an 8.4-meter-wide beam and can travel up to 22 knots when submerged. Their weapons systems include torpedoes and anti-ship missiles.

Ming-Class (Type 035)
China possesses Ming-class diesel electric attack submarines (SSKs).16 These submarines are 76 meters long with a 7.6-meter-wide beam and can travel up to 18 knots when submerged. Many variants of Type 035 class submarines have been developed such as Type 035G and the Type 035B. All Ming-class submarines possess 533mm torpedo tubes and Type 035B are capable of firing cruise missiles from its torpedo tubes.

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/china-submarine-capabilities/