LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Chinmoy]

Han bhai. Saare prices toh aap ne fix karke rakha hai for lead line of 4-5 years, yes?

 

[Chinmoy]

Finance bureaucracy also have much to do with it too.

Actually it all just about finance and ministry of industries rather then MOD.

Its just that we keep on dragging MOD bureaucracy at the drop of hat.

 

[daya]

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लेकिन HAL तो तैयार माल देगी न, सीधे सरकार बनवाये और एयरफ़ोर्स को उपलब्ध कराये. एक एजेंसी से दूसरी एजेंसी की बाध्यता ख़त्म होना चाहिये, ये केवल देरी और लालफीताशाही में सहायक है और कुछ नहीं.

 

[Chinmoy]

लेकिन HAL तो तैयार माल देगी न, सीधे सरकार बनवाये और एयरफ़ोर्स को उपलब्ध कराये. एक एजेंसी से दूसरी एजेंसी की बाध्यता ख़त्म होना चाहिये, ये केवल देरी और लालफीताशाही में सहायक है और कुछ नहीं.

मुझे नहीं पता क्यों, लेकिन ऐसा लगता है कि आप पर 1970-80 की हिंदी फिल्मों का खुमार सवार है। आप व्यवसाय के संबंध में उतनी ही अतार्किक बातें कर रहे हैं जितनी उन फिल्मों में होती थीं।

 

[MirageBlue]

A simple doubt, If ELTA2052 AESA is already available for Mark 1A, why not use the same in these trainers rather than upgrading at a later stage? If it is regarding quick delivery of these trainers, is it not possible for IAF to wait a little longer to get a better aircraft?

Because of several factors.

The 8 Tejas trainers that were originally on contract were to be built to the FOC standard, since that was the final standard for the Tejas Mk1. At the time that the Tejas trainers Standard Of Preparation (SOP) was being finalized 4 years ago, there was no Elta 2052 integrated or even Tejas Mk1A contract.

The thing is, products have to built to a SOP which has to be frozen. If you keep changing it, you'll keep running into delays.

The other thing- you can't wait longer just for Tejas trainers. You'd be delaying the build of Tejas Mk1As as well since HAL has finite amount of assembly line space as well as finite number of people to build them.

The approach being followed is very sensible.

The Tejas trainers are for the operational squadrons, to help them train new pilots quickly as they scale up.

At least one of these No.18 and No.45 squadrons will seed many more Tejas squadrons by providing trained pilots. Almost like an Operational Conversion Unit (OCU). My guess is it will be No.45 since they operate the older IOC standard fighters. The other will be moving to Nal airbase this year.

We still don't know which is the first Tejas Mk1A squadron. But they'll need qualified Tejas pilots and for that you need trainers.

 

[Spitfire9]

Bureaucracy anywhere is meant to be slow...especially british influenced shithole administrative service like ours.

75 years have elapsed since India took over its own administration. If Indian administration is lousy it will be that way because Indians want it to be that way.

 

[daya]

मुझे नहीं पता क्यों, लेकिन ऐसा लगता है कि आप पर 1970-80 की हिंदी फिल्मों का खुमार सवार है। आप व्यवसाय के संबंध में उतनी ही अतार्किक बातें कर रहे हैं जितनी उन फिल्मों में होती थीं।

प्रिय मित्र, एक एजेंसी A बना रही है, दूसरी एजेंसी B को लेना है. दोनों सरकारी हैं. अब एजेंसी B अगर चार कम्पनियों से टेंडर माँग कर निर्णय करती तो बात अलग थी, लेकिन जब A को बनाकर B को सप्लाई करना है तो फिर इतनी लम्बी प्रक्रिया क्यों. जितनी मांग B की है वह A को बता देनी है, A का जितना खर्चा आयेगा वह सरकार द्वारा उनको दिया जायेगा और B को सामान . इसमें अगर हिन्दी फिल्मों का खुमार लग रहा है तो आप इसे ऐसे भी मान सकते हैं. इसमें अगर कुछ अलग है तो केवल एकाउंटिंग के उद्देश्य से बजट एलोकेशन की बात, कि एयरफ़ोर्स को इतना बजट आयुधों और मशीनों के लिए दिया गया जिसमें से इतना इस मद में खर्च किया गया. No hard feelings sir..

 

[Love Charger]

प्रिय मित्र, एक एजेंसी A बना रही है, दूसरी एजेंसी B को लेना है. दोनों सरकारी हैं. अब एजेंसी B अगर चार कम्पनियों से टेंडर माँग कर निर्णय करती तो बात अलग थी, लेकिन जब A को बनाकर B को सप्लाई करना है तो फिर इतनी लम्बी प्रक्रिया क्यों. जितनी मांग B की है वह A को बता देनी है, A का जितना खर्चा आयेगा वह सरकार द्वारा उनको दिया जायेगा और B को सामान . इसमें अगर हिन्दी फिल्मों का खुमार लग रहा है तो आप इसे ऐसे भी मान सकते हैं. इसमें अगर कुछ अलग है तो केवल एकाउंटिंग के उद्देश्य से बजट एलोकेशन की बात, कि एयरफ़ोर्स को इतना बजट आयुधों और मशीनों के लिए दिया गया जिसमें से इतना इस मद में खर्च किया गया. No hard feelings sir..

Agar production time ki bat hai to , HAL apni production line chalte rakhni hai, shayad isliye itni lambi prakriya

 

[daya]

Agar production time ki bat hai to , HAL apni production line chalte rakhni hai, shayad isliye itni lambi prakriya

It is quite possible sir.

 

[NutCracker]

प्रिय मित्र, एक एजेंसी A बना रही है, दूसरी एजेंसी B को लेना है. दोनों सरकारी हैं. अब एजेंसी B अगर चार कम्पनियों से टेंडर माँग कर निर्णय करती तो बात अलग थी, लेकिन जब A को बनाकर B को सप्लाई करना है तो फिर इतनी लम्बी प्रक्रिया क्यों. जितनी मांग B की है वह A को बता देनी है, A का जितना खर्चा आयेगा वह सरकार द्वारा उनको दिया जायेगा और B को सामान . इसमें अगर हिन्दी फिल्मों का खुमार लग रहा है तो आप इसे ऐसे भी मान सकते हैं. इसमें अगर कुछ अलग है तो केवल एकाउंटिंग के उद्देश्य से बजट एलोकेशन की बात, कि एयरफ़ोर्स को इतना बजट आयुधों और मशीनों के लिए दिया गया जिसमें से इतना इस मद में खर्च किया गया. No hard feelings sir..

उप यंत्र भेजने वाली B कोई एक अदद कंपनी नही हो सकती, नए खिलाड़ियों को भी भाग लेने का अधिकार देना पड़ेगा, अन्यथा ये एकाधिकार प्रणाली में आयेगा,
ऐसे में हो सकता हमे अधिक खर्चना पड़े, ऊपर से विपक्ष औद्योगिकी में प्रतियोगिता समाप्त होने का आक्षेप लगा देगा।

 

[daya]

B कोई एक अदद कंपनी नही हो सकती, नए खिलाड़ियों को भी भाग लेने का अधिकार देना पड़ेगा, अन्यथा ये एकाधिकार प्रणाली में आयेगा,
ऐसे में हो सकता हमे अधिक खर्चना पड़े, ऊपर से विपक्ष औद्योगिकी में प्रतियोगिता समाप्त होने का आक्षेप लगा देगा।

Yes, you are absolutely right sir, but this is the case of Tejas and Tejas is being produced by HAL only.

 

[NutCracker]

Yes, you are absolutely right sir, but this is the case of Tejas and Tejas is being produced by HAL only.

Private companies to carry out 70% of production work for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas | India News - Times of India

India News: In a move that will help meet delivery deadlines, defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has decided to outsource majority of the production

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[MirageBlue]

Good news for Argentina in that at least it's fast jet capability has returned with the signing of the deal with Denmark for 24 F-16 A/Bs updated to MLU standards. Price is very reasonable but these are old F-16s and may not last longer than a decade.

So Argentina is no longer a possible Tejas Mk1A customer.

 

[mamamia12]

Good news for Argentina in that at least it's fast jet capability has returned with the signing of the deal with Denmark for 24 F-16 A/Bs updated to MLU standards. Price is very reasonable but these are old F-16s and may not last longer than a decade.

So Argentina is no longer a possible Tejas Mk1A customer.

Why did the idiots at HAL even offer Tejas? We are dying to replace the Flying Coffins. We are buying second hand Mirages to cannibalize for their parts.

 

[Spitfire9]

Why did the idiots at HAL even offer Tejas?

Complete waste of time and money by HAL. The only way Argentina would have ever bought Tejas would have been if it was the only light fighter available. Not the case.

 

[kamaal]

We should look for partners for LCA not customers, nobody is going to invest billions in a jet which is just 4th gen and developed by India. There are 5-6 alternatives available.
GoI should be prepared to invest few millions in loss making deal and find some African country which can offer some mines for LCA. That's the only way we can sell LCA outside India, there has to be some strategic importance of LCA.

 

[MirageBlue]

Why did the idiots at HAL even offer Tejas? We are dying to replace the Flying Coffins. We are buying second hand Mirages to cannibalize for their parts.

Where are moderators on this forum?!

Idiots because they offered a jet for export?!? What rubbish language is this? People criticize them for not being able to export and here you're criticizing them for really trying hard?!

We are not dying to replace the Bisons..if we were the IAF wouldn't have asked for further mods to the Tejas M1kA before standing up the new Tejas Mk1A squadron.

HAL is looking to expand it's production to more than what the IAF has asked for (16 per year is the IAF mandate, HAL wants to step up to 24 per year).

Get your facts right and stop abusing those who actually work on aerospace programs! What do you do in your real life that makes you feel entitled enough to make such remarks?!

 

[Bleh]

Why did the idiots at HAL even offer Tejas? We are dying to replace the Flying Coffins. We are buying second hand Mirages to cannibalize for their parts.

Because an order will allow expansion of the Tejas assembly line... Now that we've got a 83+97 additional order, the export push will reduce.

 

[MirageBlue]

Complete waste of time and money by HAL. The only way Argentina would have ever bought Tejas would have been if it was the only light fighter available. Not the case.

Not at all. It established the fact that dependency on a country like the UK for parts should be avoided as far as possible for Tejas Mk2, TEDBF and AMCA. Next program there'll be no Cobham parts and only the Martin Baker seat will be of British origin.

It also established the fact that HAL along with the GOI are dead serious about export campaigns and are willing to go the extra length to meet customer requirements (e.g. giving Argentina a roadmap to remove British sourced parts) to try to secure a deal.

If anyone is wasting money it is your dear Airbus which is offering Typhoon for the MRFA despite the writing being on the wall (if there is ever a MRFA tender released).

 

[NutCracker]

Why did the idiots at HAL even offer Tejas? We are dying to replace the Flying Coffins. We are buying second hand Mirages to cannibalize for their parts.

Tejas mk1a is not a replacement for Mirage2k , so I don't find any sense why you mentioned that reference.