New Russian single engine fighter jet

[SARTHAK]

russian ew and aircraft are underrated

 

[JBH22]

Where's the panic ? all is see is America churning out F 35 likes pancake.
all radars can track F 35 or any other stealth plane what's new? My money is on F 35 though even against Rafale .
Russia can claim all the bull s**t but law of physics work same everywhere even in Russia.

INDIA been using good old Russian tech to swat hyped US weapons used by Pakistan.
MIG 21 gave a good account against F104 or F86 Sabres. Good old T55 gave a good performance against Patton M48 tanks.
OSA missile class boat rained fire on karachi port.
With respect to cost/performance Russian systems are damn good. INDIA cannot shift to expensive Western platforms we will be bankrupt.

 

[Sigmamale101]

INDIA been using good old Russian tech to swat hyped US weapons used by Pakistan.
MIG 21 gave a good account against F104 or F86 Sabres. Good old T55 gave a good performance against Patton M48 tanks.
OSA missile class boat rained fire on karachi port.
With respect to cost/performance Russian systems are damn good. INDIA cannot shift to expensive Western platforms we will be bankrupt.

Technological gap wasn't that great during those times. It is now brother...there is a reason why we didn't follow up on SU 57. Rafale is one of the best thing we bought in last 2 decade in my opinion. It is the best fighter jet in subcontinent tech wise.. Better than anything chinese or paki have. Russia made good progress in last two decade in certain fields specially armoured vehicles, submarines, even Air defence system & Radars but they are way behind specially in aviation. Russian trolls can claim whatever they want but things on ground are not that great... not even in Ukraine according to latest reports

 

[blackjack]

Technological gap wasn't that great during those times. It is now brother...there is a reason why we didn't follow up on SU 57. Rafale is one of the best thing we bought in last 2 decade in my opinion. It is the best fighter jet in subcontinent tech wise.. Better than anything chinese or paki have. Russia made good progress in last two decade in certain fields specially armoured vehicles, submarines, even Air defence system & Radars but they are way behind specially in aviation. Russian trolls can claim whatever they want but things on ground are not that great... not even in Ukraine according to latest reports

Just had an arguement with two turkish users for thinking the TFX is better than what the F-35 is so I had to set them straight and this might apply here as well.

1. The F-18 growler Next gen jammer uses GaN also the F-35 is getting new modules which of course will be the same shit. in terms of radars https://ir.qorvo.com/static-files/f3b850ac-b1d4-4935-9236-6a81990ac89b and changed to GaN prodction and even have some modules available for military radars like aircrafts https://www.qorvo.com/applications/defense-aerospace/radar#all-cat-products

Now having 360 degree radar coverage isnt that bad and all since its argued that the Su-57 current version has 240 degrees and one of the officiials of KRET stated the himalayas has active detection making it 360 degree coverage https://vpk.name/news/144206_kret_r...borby_s_vozdushno-kosmicheskimi_ugrozami.html The F-22A was not possible for a 240 degree radar design because it was too expensive and I am assuming the Sukhoi LTS went 360 degree infrared with the F-35 because its cheaper. The Su-57 new avionics upgrade is a different story for 2022-2024 https://rostec.ru/upload/iblock/749/7499bd4f8161ec87a58c080c077564e8.pdf page 63 those 3 aircrafts received new EW modules and systems after 2014. Than they are pushing on this for radar coverage.



to save everyone the headaches of what this is about here, https://www.russiadefence.net/t8378p575-russian-radar-systems https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/photonic-integrated-circuits-and-radar-developement.32576/ the Current F-35 and Su-57 have old radars with replacement plans for them so 360 degree GaN isnt going to be all that exclusive just for the TAI TFX when it seems that both countries wont have a problem making something equal or in Russias case better, and not to be a dick but I see those replacements happening before the TAI-TFX is officially an operational aircraft.

2. They are some condescending moderators at secretprojects in their TAI-TFX thread but not too long ago they were deciding who is going to export them the engines. But the performance of three stream cycle engines will be better than turbofan engines that they already had in the past. https://www.aero-mag.com/sixth-generation-fighter-jet-engine-17082021 and https://webcache.googleusercontent....s/2021/5/18/228542/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us they will create turbofan engines but supercruise and range performances with fuel efficency goes to aircrafts with 3 stream cycle engines. For bonus purposes they can go for detonation engines. https://www.aerospacetestinginterna...est-success-with-pulse-detonation-engine.html
Single-engine hypersonic stealth plane under development in Russia - source

https://ntv.ifmo.ru/file/article/14542.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._DETONACII_PODKRITICESKIM_STRIMERNYM_RAZRADOM
ОДК создает двигатели нового поколения для самолетов и ракет


3. Su-57 already had DIRCM dont know if its part of their avionics package upgrade for better DIRCM, F-35 has proposed Thndr DIRCM but MSDM uses 1 meter size missiles for self defense nothing of that missile size caliber on the TFX but proposed on the pantsir systems being quadpacked of same size but no propositions on their aircrafts. Su-57 has internal hypersonic air to ground missiles Larva-MD but nothing on the F-35 side. but where Turkey stands in missiles other than the SOM series being domestic there is nothing much heard.

Conclusion

When something is entirely a different generation or one generation up it has to have a significant advantage over an aircraft that has a lower generation. stealth aircrafts beat regular fighter aircrafts because of RCS differences where stealth can engage at BVR distances and regular aircrafts short distances, however a near hypersonic near orbit aircraft should be considered a different generation aircraft in my opinions because the air to air missiles going up altitudes will burn alot of fuel..... and the only way to target such high altitude aircrafts is to ascend into the air and not descend. At best from my personal opinion the NGAD, whatever F-35 block,TFX. Su-57 variant or F-22s if getting upgraded or not will only fall in 5th gen, 5th gen +, 5th gen ++ category rating. GaAS and regular turbo engines are 5th gen, GaN and 3 stream cycle engines are 5th gen+, DIRCM is 5th gen + or self defense 1 meter minauture missiles might be 5th gen ++, using regular flares and shafts is just 5th gen, photonic radars, microwave guns, 700km range missiles using several air to air missiles in one like the MRK DP project or near hypersonic flight would be considered 6th gen because of the huge technological leap it has over conventional radars, engines, weapons, etc.

 

[JBH22]

Technological gap wasn't that great during those times. It is now brother...there is a reason why we didn't follow up on SU 57. Rafale is one of the best thing we bought in last 2 decade in my opinion. It is the best fighter jet in subcontinent tech wise.. Better than anything chinese or paki have. Russia made good progress in last two decade in certain fields specially armoured vehicles, submarines, even Air defence system & Radars but they are way behind specially in aviation. Russian trolls can claim whatever they want but things on ground are not that great... not even in Ukraine according to latest reports

On a 1V1 engagement yes I would agree western equipment may be better. But this rarely happens one has to factor cost, scalability of models, end user agreement, ruggedness of platform.
See how you leave your Su30mki on tarmac vs cuddling rafale needs.

Bottomline is we need/afford Mercedes fleet when job can be done by fleet fiat?

Of note, any state after what Russian endured during 90s ought to have lost their defence. But lo and behold there was always people who believed that things will change and they continued to work. Prime example is development of Su34..

 

[SARTHAK]

radar coverage is not 360 deg for that your need conformal antenna, antenna in the wingtips and one with large for in the tail,f35,su57 have 360 rwr coverage which many 4.5 gen planes have, as far as su57 is considered it has better radar coverage still not 360 deg,l band antenna in the wings are very important assets it also has one aesa in the tail, with 360 deg ir sensors it can be useful, Russia has developed qwip irst sensors, stealth is not a very important aspect of su 57 but it still far more stealthy than any 4.5 gen planes,so keeping f35 as a benchmark for "BEST" plane is wrong,every country makes aircraft according to its doctrine,su57 is a stealth killer,India left su57 becoz of TOT reasons

 

[Dark Sorrow]

With respect to cost/performance Russian systems are damn good. INDIA cannot shift to expensive Western platforms we will be bankrupt.

We are not in 1980s or early 1990s. We can afford western stuff easily with full payment in advance.
We no longer need cheap Russian aircraft.

The fact of the mater is that even even after purchasing cheap Russian aircraft we tend to replace most of the avionics with indigenous or western ones.

 

[blackjack]

radar coverage is not 360 deg for that your need conformal antenna, antenna in the wingtips and one with large for in the tail,f35,su57 have 360 rwr coverage which many 4.5 gen planes have, as far as su57 is considered it has better radar coverage still not 360 deg,l band antenna in the wings are very important assets it also has one aesa in the tail, with 360 deg ir sensors it can be useful, Russia has developed qwip irst sensors, stealth is not a very important aspect of su 57 but it still far more stealthy than any 4.5 gen planes,so keeping f35 as a benchmark for "BEST" plane is wrong,every country makes aircraft according to its doctrine,su57 is a stealth killer,India left su57 becoz of TOT reasons

all U.S. stealth aircrafts that are operational received PTD treatments from Ufimtsev's formula that many skunkwork designers praise, the before stealth features for the su-70 and su-57 looked bad but they got later addressed when we see them today. I simply compared the handheld infrared detection systems their soldiers carry and they are already on par with what the west special forces uses in detection capabilities. their photonic circuit developement makes the 360 degrees coverage better buts it going to take them 5 years and they have like two years down already on the software developement.

 

[SARTHAK]

all U.S. stealth aircrafts that are operational received PTD treatments from Ufimtsev's formula that many skunkwork designers praise, the before stealth features for the su-70 and su-57 looked bad but they got later addressed when we see them today. I simply compared the handheld infrared detection systems their soldiers carry and they are already on par with what the west special forces uses in detection capabilities. their photonic circuit developement makes the 360 degrees coverage better buts it going to take them 5 years and they have like two years down already on the software developement.

yes the production variants were a lot better in stealth but ppl usually have a preconceived notion that russian aircrafts are not up to mark of western counterparts in terms of ew and stealth that is why i said su 57 is a balanced aircraft

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[bhramos]

Checkmate – Russia's Newest Stealth Fighter

 

[Super Flanker]

I had a question with regards to SU-75 or more precisely with regards to Commonality between the SU-75 and SU-57.

My question : is true or not that SU-75 will use the same wings and horizontal Stabilizers as that of SU-57?

This struck me when I was reading this article on SU-75 and SU-57. Here is Link:-

Su-75 Checkmate Vs Su-57 Felon - How Does Russia's New, Single-Engine Stealth Aircraft Differ From Its Predecessor?

The Russian Su-75 ‘Checkmate’ which made its international debut at the ongoing Dubai Air Show, has been in the limelight ever since its unveiling in July this year. 30 More Rafale Fighter Jets For Egypt As Dassault Sets The Ball Rolling On $4.5B Procurement Contract Recently, a promotional...

eurasiantimes.com

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[Super Flanker]

yes the production variants were a lot better in stealth but ppl usually have a preconceived notion that russian aircrafts are not up to mark of western counterparts in terms of ew and stealth that is why i said su 57 is a balanced aircraft

Western Propoganda I would say it is? As far as I know, The SU-57 is definitely not as good as the F-22 in terms of RCS/Degree of Stealth but i don't think so that the SU-57 has any need to be as Stealthy as US 5th gen Fighters like F-35, F-22.

I am pretty sure that the Russians probably knew very well during the Development of the PAK FA that they would never be able to match the Stealth level of F-22, F-35 etc and hence designed the jet as more of a "Anti-Stealth" Aircraft in the sense it will hunt other Stealth jets by keeping a low enough RCS so as to force the opponent to come into close range or a "Dogfight".

Also this "Anti Stealth" approach is perfect for Russian defensive doctrine and also more economical for a country like Russia.

 

[Super Flanker]

After introduction of Checkmate (Not in terms of Entering service but being revealed). I would say that the Russians will use this as a counterpart to the American F-35.

Basically after this, the SU-75 and SU-57 will become the Russian Counter-parts/Analogue to the American F-35 and F-22 Raptor Respectively.

(My personal Assumption ofcourse)

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[Bhartiya Sainik]

After introduction of Checkmate (Not in terms of Entering service but being revealed). I would say that the Russians will use this as a counterpart to the American F-35.

Basically after this, the SU-75 and SU-57 will become the Russian Counter-parts/Analogue to the American F-35 and F-22 Raptor Respectively.

(My personal Assumption ofcourse)

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Let's see how much response Su-75 gets under present sanctions. Compared to F-35 it seems to be slimmer but longer. It should have TVC.

 

[SARTHAK]

Let's see how much response Su-75 gets under present sanctions. Compared to F-35 it seems to be slimmer but longer. It should have TVC.

given the current situation amid sanctions and india promoting "atmnirbhar bharat",su75 reaching production lines is unlikely

 

[SARTHAK]

Western Propoganda I would say it is? As far as I know, The SU-57 is definitely not as good as the F-22 in terms of RCS/Degree of Stealth but i don't think so that the SU-57 has any need to be as Stealthy as US 5th gen Fighters like F-35, F-22.

I am pretty sure that the Russians probably knew very well during the Development of the PAK FA that they would never be able to match the Stealth level of F-22, F-35 etc and hence designed the jet as more of a "Anti-Stealth" Aircraft in the sense it will hunt other Stealth jets by keeping a low enough RCS so as to force the opponent to come into close range or a "Dogfight".

Also this "Anti Stealth" approach is perfect for Russian defensive doctrine and also more economical for a country like Russia.

yes su57 is more of a balanced aircraft which is not as stealthy as f22 but still more stealthy than rafale or fa18 sha ,it focuses more on anti stealth, western propoganda says that is as stealthy as fa18 block 3 which is rubbish

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The Su-57 has evolved over a decade. The initial prototypes revealed in 2009 were very crude in terms of stealth shaping, with exposed rivets all around the aiframe. Later prototypes were quite improved in this regard.

 

[Super Flanker]

yes su57 is more of a balanced aircraft which is not as stealthy as f22 but still more stealthy than rafale or fa18 sha ,it focuses more on anti stealth, western propoganda says that is as stealthy as fa18 block 3 which is rubbish

I think so I had come across an article which said that "The RCS of a clean FA-18 Super Hornet is the same as that of an SU-57".

I don't understand what is Wrong with these Westerners, I don't think so that the day is to far that they might even say that an F-16 is better and has less or comparible RCS to an SU-57. Let me Debunk this Propoganda:-

Here is Picture of an FA-18 Super Hornet:

Notice how there are 90 degree angles in so many places on the FA-18? 90 degree Angles are like the worst thing you can build into an aircraft and deflect radar the most and the Overall Airframe is not fully made to be Stealthy. It is a well known fact that the Americans have Definitely tried to implement some RCS reduction technics in the FA-18 but to a small degree and it cannot match the SU-57.

Here is SU-57:

SU-57 was From the starting designed in mind keeping stealth in mind and the Entire frame has been smoothed in order to give as little Radar return as possible. So SU-57 is Stealthier than American Aircrafts like FA-18, F-16, F-15 and has lower RCS than these. I don't think so that it is more stealthier than F-35 and F-22 but in reality it doesn't need to be.

But according to westerners ,a jet like FA-18 is Stealthier than an aircraft like SU-57 which has its nose Section, wings ,Stabilizers etc designed keeping stealth in mind and obviously more RAM paint etc!
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Let's see how much response Su-75 gets under present sanctions. Compared to F-35 it seems to be slimmer but longer. It should have TVC.

What kind of response are you talking about here?

 

[Super Flanker]

The Su-57 has evolved over a decade. The initial prototypes revealed in 2009 were very crude in terms of stealth shaping, with exposed rivets all around the aiframe. Later prototypes were quite improved in this regard.

SU-57 production models till this day Probably still have some form of Rivets in their build but these have been masked by the RAM paint/Layer. I have not seen any type of rivets on any production SU-57 till date (If you have please send picture and point it out).