LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Satish Sharma

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2023
Messages
1,570
Likes
4,426
Country flag
You are picking up very specific scenario.

Same limitations can be there when it's on wingtip pylon and whole airframe+ fuel tanks are hindering the operation of aspj against missile coming from other side.
Debate ends here the diameter of ASPJ is even less than lighting ldp which is around 400mm in comparison to ASPJ
images (1) (6).jpeg

Fo1knUTaQAE5Ke2.jpeg

Also see in this image below the coverage area from both side is very less. if aircraft is flying low..
The very specific scenario I'm picking is the most important scenario.
images (1) (9).jpeg
However what you're saying is can be used in sead or dead missions
 
Last edited:

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,214
Likes
26,019
Country flag
As far as the Jammer at outermost pylon is concerned I think I have said this before. Tejas have been experimented with wingtip pylons while trying to optimise the Mark 1 platform.
Screenshot (58).png
Screenshot (58) - Copy.png


And both 2 CCMs at out board pylons or 1CCM & 1Jammer have been tried. The outer pylons are so rated to take 300kg weight. But my point it instead of this & robbing the midboard pylon of duak-rack BVRs (space constraints) why not use the wingtip to carry the jammer?
yfRh-imX.jpg_medium.jpg

Screenshot (58) (1).png

This pylon is already under-design for MWF & will allow carrying total 3 CCMs (wingtip on other side).

Maybe later on we can use this loadout & jabe 3 BVRs...
TeotlEDa.jpg_small.jpg
...but right now Mark 1A is stuck with 1 CCM.
Kmkw0hxQ.jpg_medium.jpg
 
Last edited:

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
1,607
Likes
5,839
Country flag

To all the Gen Z out here. This is what the situation was for the older generations ...
LoL dejavu for me too...I used to pilfer and cut out photos from magazines in govt library to maintain my scrap book.
 

Satish Sharma

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2023
Messages
1,570
Likes
4,426
Country flag
And both 2 CCMs at out board pylons or 1CCM & 1Jammer have been tried. The outer pylons are so rated to take 300kg weight. But my point it instead of this & robbing the midboard pylon of duak-rack BVRs (space constraints) why not use the wingtip to carry the jammer?
View attachment 246489
View attachment 246486
This pylon is already under-design for MWF & will allow carrying total 3 CCMs (wingtip on other side).

Maybe later on we can use this loadout & jabe 3 BVRs...
There were only 2 option either host 2 pylons on wing & then 1 on wing tip or all 3 on wings. Tejas cannot accomodate 3 on wing +1 wing tip at once...

If wing tip would have been choose then dual rack pylon can't be used..
Be approach would have been to add a missile on middle pylon it would be very worth it.
They are putting astra mk3 and not the mk1&mk2 because of design big wings and all..
That is the problem here. & The putting it on fuselage ldp pylon is just no possible as u can see in below images how ext. Fuel tanks block ldp the ASPJ is even smaller
images (1) (6).jpeg

And as u said we can put it on dual rack pylon with 1 CCM for that we will need another type of launcher..
It is possible as the pod with it's launcher weights only 130kg...
Screenshot_2024-03-25-20-41-36-01_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

All issues will be sorted out of Tejas could carry dual rack pylon in centre line pylon for missile. 4 bvr ideal even if it carried single there enough with 3bvrs.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,214
Likes
26,019
Country flag
There were only 2 option either host 2 pylons on wing & then 1 on wing tip or all 3 on wings. Tejas cannot accomodate 3 on wing +1 wing tip at once...
Read & understand properly before replying.

If it can take two CCMs like this...
IMG_20240401_115510.jpg

...it should be able to support 2 CCMs like this.
Screenshot (58) (1).png


This latter is better aerodynamically & will allow middle pylon BVR dual-rack.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SKC

Satish Sharma

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2023
Messages
1,570
Likes
4,426
Country flag
Read & understand properly before replying.

If it can take two CCMs like this...
View attachment 246531
...it should be able to support 2 CCMs like this.View attachment 246532

This latter is better aerodynamically & will allow middle pylon BVR dual-rack.
Okay but they aren't doing this and we were discussing it how to accomodate it without structural change. I know it's like jf17.
images (1) (1).jpeg
 

SwordOfDarkness

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2021
Messages
2,713
Likes
11,694
Country flag
Without structural changes it's gonna be that only...
Doubt

Theres other ways to add pylons, such as

1) Combining CCM launcher with SPJ on both outboard pylons (similar to how its done for wingtip launchers, and the limitation on angles wont be any different from current setup) (Downside - Need to design a new ASPJ system for this to work)

2) Combining fuel tanks and missiles on the same pylons. For example, F15 -

1711965539342.png


(Downside - Fuel capacity will be reduced if we add missile weight on same pylon. For Tejas, if we want 2 Astra MK2 missiles, it wont hold more than 800 kg ish of fuel on that pylon. But IMO its worth the 800 kg total fuel reduction (around 14% of its total capacity) to give tejas 4 extra BVR missiles)

3) To change the shape of dual ccm pylon to make it thinner, allowing dual radar guided on middle pylon. Instead of -

1711965907119.png


have -

1711966011824.png


which removes separation down to theoretically just 2x of the missile diameter, which is much smaller.

(Potential downside - This is just me sitting and thinking, and in reality this could have drag issues compared to normal setup if missiles are too close, IDK. Will need to be checked through CFD and all. Though I think we can still expect sizeable reduction in width, even if its more than the theoretical minima with decent drag)
 
Last edited:

NutCracker

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
5,257
Likes
28,221
Country flag
Doubt

Theres other ways to add pylons, such as

1) Combining CCM launcher with SPJ on both outboard pylons (similar to how its done for wingtip launchers, and the limitation on angles wont be any different from current setup) (Downside - Need to design a new ASPJ system for this to work)

2) Combining fuel tanks and missiles on the same pylons. For example, F15 -

View attachment 246567

(Downside - Fuel capacity will be reduced if we add missile weight on same pylon. For Tejas, if we want 2 Astra MK2 missiles, it wont hold more than 800 kg ish of fuel on that pylon. But IMO its worth the 800 kg total fuel reduction (around 14% of its total capacity) to give tejas 4 extra BVR missiles)

3) To change the shape of dual ccm pylon to make it thinner, allowing dual radar guided on middle pylon. Instead of -

View attachment 246568

have -

View attachment 246570

which removes separation down to theoretically just 2x of the missile diameter, which is much smaller.

(Potential downside - This is just me sitting and thinking, and in reality this could have drag issues compared to normal setup if missiles are too close, IDK. Will need to be checked through CFD and all. Though I think we can still expect sizeable reduction in width, even if its more than the theoretical minima with decent drag)
We are moving towards universal ejector launchers. So IAF won't be happy with rail laucher attached to fuel tank pylon.

So I think HAL can look for something like this. Takes less space than the parallel comfiguration.
SmartSelect_20240401_154357_Keep Notes.jpg
 
Last edited:

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,214
Likes
26,019
Country flag
We are moving towards universal ejector launchers. So IAF won't be happy with rail laucher attached to fuel tank pylon.

So I think HAL can look for something like this. Takes less space than the parallel comfiguration.
View attachment 246578
I could get behind this... One already existed for Mig-21 with the R-60 missile called P-62-II twin launcher.
@Kuntal check out this idea.
the-mig-21-is-the-most-produced-11496-fighter-jet-ever-v0-lumbiu557tw91.jpg
e81434fc1a869850d0d5b870ff223932d254_1920xt1080_S1000.jpg
 
Last edited:

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
5,682
Likes
21,731
Country flag
So tejas mk1a is gonna fire a lot of weapons in Jaisalmer most probably in mid of April
 

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
5,682
Likes
21,731
Country flag
India's Uttam AESA Radar Is Close To Clearing A Major Milestone — Here's The Lowdown
UJJWAL SHROTRYIA

Apr 07, 2024, 05:45 PM | Updated 05:45 PM IST




.
India’s indigenously developed Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Uttam radar is nearing of completion of its flight trials.

In an interview with Anantha Krishnan M of Tarmak Media House, ADA Director Dr Jitendra Jadhav disclosed that the Uttam radar has been successfully integrated into the Tejas Mk-1 jet.

Having undergone more than 125 flight tests, including both Air-to-Air (A2A) and Air-to-Ground (A2G) modes, the radar has showcased performance equivalent to or greater than the Israeli Elta 2052 AESA radar across almost all parameters.

Dr Jadhav says, "We have integrated the Uttam radar with Tejas Mk-1 and completed 125 flights. We have completed the A2A and A2G performance and other features [of the radar]," adding that "a few of the flight tests are pending which will be conducted shortly, but today, as a radar, it is functioning on par with imported radars, and in some areas, it performs much better than imported radars."

In fact, according to the ADA director, the radar has been cleared for hardware production as well.

He says, "We have already given the hardware clearance for production. The production can now proceed concurrently till we finish some tests which are pending, and then hopefully, we are expecting that by the 41st aircraft, the Uttam radar will be integrated into the MK-1A."

The Israeli Elta 2052 radar will be installed on the first 40 Tejas Mk-1A serially produced jets.

The remaining 43 Tejas Mk-1A jets will feature the indigenously developed Uttam AESA radar, propelling India into the select group of nations that have mastered this technology, including the US, UK, France, Russia, China, Germany, Italy, Israel, and Japan.

AESA radars are modern radars that, instead of using a single antenna dish in a mechanically steered radar, contain hundreds or thousands of small transmitter/receiver modules (TRMs) that are electronically controlled.

Their electronic control makes these radars more precise, gives it increased range, and less prone to failure.

Unlike radars using mechanically steered antennas, which rely on machinery to rotate and change the orientation of the antenna, AESA radars electronically steer the radar beam, removing any moving parts and making them more reliable.

These TRMs, in comparison to a single antenna to transmit and receive signals, can operate on independent frequencies, enabling the radar to perform multiple tasks simultaneously, such as searching for targets in the air while tracking multiple targets.

Each TRM can modulate its power levels to focus energy more efficiently, resulting in better target tracking.

Since each TRM can operate on different frequencies, the radar can conduct frequency-hopping to avoid radar jamming while simultaneously jamming enemy radars, enhancing the jet's electronic counter-countermeasures capability (ECCM).

Moreover, the ability of TRMs to operate at different frequencies allows the radar to operate in a low-probability of intercept (LPI) mode.

Typically, when any radar operates, the energy of the radar signal is detected by precise receivers called radar warning receivers (RWRs), which can detect and identify the presence of the radar (and, hence the fighter jet carrying the radar) in a given area, alerting the enemy.

These RWRs can even precisely identify the location of the radar emissions (hence the jet) making it vulnerable to potential reprisals.

Due to the frequency-hopping ability of the TRMs of the AESA radar operating in LPI mode, it becomes much harder to detect the presence of the radar by enemy RWR sensors.

The current Uttam radar is supposed to use TRM modules made of Gallium Arsenide (GaAs). Another, more advanced version using TRMs made of new Gallium Nitride (GaN) is under development and is intended for use on the LCA Mk-2 jet, 5th generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), and potentially even on the Su-30 MKI upgrade.

The GaN TRM-based AESA radars are more efficient and have increased detection range, to the tune of 20 to 25 percent.

With the new Uttam AESA radar nearing completion of testing and the advanced GaN variant under development, most of the Indian Air Force's fighter jets will sport Indian-made radars in the near future.















.




 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top