Jihadi propaganda patterns and how to counter them

[ezsasa]

I disagree wrt we should do nothing in other societies. If jews, chinese can lobby for their interests and rights of people, sure we can as long as islamic soccieties have not completely taken over thosle docieties. This
Will give breather space exactly to do what you are suggesting without western socities breathing on our neck without any check.

Chini lobby is a state sponsored geopolitical lobby, it largely works because of domestic security policies within china. there is no quid pro quo between freedoms given to chini residents in western countries and freedoms given to westerners in china. this equation India as country does not want to replicate.

Jewish community on the other hand is a diaspora led outreach in respective western countries, factors like dual citizenship also play a role. and there is jewish history in europe, which is a major factor. brits have negated this for us, by saying colonialism has been a positive experience for Indian subcontinent.

and another thing, ultimately this is hafta vasooli by western academia and media houses. as soon as some one pays more, the "cartel" will focus on another group like it happened after 9/11. before 9/11 anti-semitism was a big topic of debate, but after 9/11 priority got replaced with islamophobia.

if the Indian diaspora thinks they see value in making such an investment, they will go ahead. i am looking at it from Indian citizens point of view.

 

[prasadr14]

The internet Hindus have gotten something right in fighting the Jihadis.

To mob them and ridicule them. It is something we are becoming experts on.
This is something where we have seen some wins.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Let's bring the discussion back to identifying specific patterns, such as gaslighting or faking events, and how best to counter them, including learning from the counter jihadi side's previous narrative mistakes, or conversely identifying when we've been effective. Again, the purpose here is to be specific and methodical, rather than have general discussions about jihadis.

 

[shade]

Let's bring the discussion back to identifying specific patterns, such as gaslighting or faking events, and how best to counter them, including learning from the counter jihadi side's previous narrative mistakes, or conversely identifying when we've been effective. Again, the purpose here is to be specific and methodical, rather than have general discussions about jihadis.

You have to "out-shout" them my guy.
Your target audience is non-muslim "viewers" of your internet SM or media reports.

Greens are zombies anyway so no point trying to break them, it's the rest you need to go after, no sympathy for the greens from lefties or clueless people.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

You have to "out-shout" them my guy.
Your target audience is non-muslim "viewers" of your internet SM or media reports.

Greens are zombies anyway so no point trying to break them, it's the rest you need to go after, no sympathy for the greens from lefties or clueless people.

That's a good strategy. Concentrate on convincing the non muslim side, rather than trying to argue with muslims. We've always intuitively known that. So let's break it down:

1) What are ways in which jihadis convince gullible non muslims, i.e your average idiot gora
2) How to convince a non muslim that they've been lied to, and in turn convince them of the truth regarding a particular event or problem.
3) How to make them understand the big picture

 

[shade]

That's a good strategy. Concentrate on convincing the non muslim side, rather than trying to argue with muslims. We've always intuitively known that. So let's break it down:

1) What are ways in which jihadis convince gullible non muslims, i.e your average idiot gora
2) How to convince a non muslim that they've been lied to, and in turn convince them of the truth regarding a particular event or problem.
3) How to make them understand the big picture

One way is to bury the target population with evidence of Islamic brutality, like remember Kanhaiyya Kumar's murder for "gustaq e rasool" ? all the Indian liberals on the internet were shaken over it, their faith in #NotAalMooslims was shattered.

Rest of the stuff is generally demolishing the leftie "oppressed-oppressor" and "islamophobia" narratives, can't happen more broadly without making the target demographic more "righter".

Also it must be drilled in the minds of the infidel, that what the green does is justified and promoted in his book, it's not just WE HAVE BEEN WRONGED revenge against non-greens, they don't need a cause, they don't need an excuse.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Another important lesson here is to not jump into disproving the opponents allegations till you're 100% sure. The Israelis made the mistake yesterday of immediately putting up some proof within the hour, only for that to be disproven, including our boy Hananya Naftali, and the official IDF handle itself. Jihadi "fact checkers" instantly jumped on the opportunity

It was only after that, that the Israelis came up with the real counter evidence to disprove the initial allegation. But by that time their own gaffe had caused serious confusion and doubt on their narrative, so they're still not able to decisively shake off the allegation in front of non muslims.

Do not jump in headfirst, verify what you're saying, even if it takes a few hours or a few days. That way you're not caught backtracking on your statements, and non muslims will believe you after the clarification. Muslims will remain with their lie, but it will become clear to everyone else that they're lying. Which is the goal.

 

[ezsasa]

- Propaganda comes in waves, it has a time limit, it has a start date/time and an end date/time. especially when it is paid propaganda, when money runs out the buzz ends at a snap of the finger.

- Sticking to truth helps a lot

- Not being abusive also helps. once abuse is given it has it's own cycle.

- Any thing related to India has no absolute truths. if some one says something, the opposite is equally true.

 

[brat4]

another thing I have seen:
remember the Paki cricketer who prayed namaz on the groud? thats trumpeted as "amazing, we ridiculed Hindus"
and when people respond with "Jai shree ram" - its bullying a mussalman.

if they are at recieving end- its because they are victim
if they are doing something to insult you, they are proud that they actually insulted you - no mention that hindus are victims.

how to counter: ifeel the extreme disdain way and short sentences usully work
"bullyed by jai shree ram" -
counters: "its a chant like aoa, is it bullying if you say aoa?"
"anyone who hears jai sree ram gets strength"

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Let's bring the discussion back to identifying specific patterns, such as gaslighting or faking events, and how best to counter them, including learning from the counter jihadi side's previous narrative mistakes, or conversely identifying when we've been effective. Again, the purpose here is to be specific and methodical, rather than have general discussions about jihadis.

mock the lack of fun in islam. that is an angle people don't explore. provoke the younglings of islam with ridicule saying that your religion is stupid and uncool.

and this would stick with Abrahamic faiths, especially ISLAM very well. because even it's celebrations and holidays are mid at best if not just boring and seem like a punishment (i mean fasting everyday to have heavy eating at night - I too can order well from Uber Eats and binge every day on meat).

This is one of my contributions on attack. Loosen the grip of young people on this primitive ideology that keeps civilization from progressing into modernity.

Another angle of attack is resistance to modernity like I mentioned above. Here no religion can be said to be conducive to modernization per say, but ISLAM can be objectively said to be the most regressive force against modernization, and attacks in this angle can be effective against people on the fence who are young and up and coming.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

another thing I have seen:
remember the Paki cricketer who prayed namaz on the groud? thats trumpeted as "amazing, we ridiculed Hindus"
and when people respond with "Jai shree ram" - its bullying a mussalman.

if they are at recieving end- its because they are victim
if they are doing something to insult you, they are proud that they actually insulted you - no mention that hindus are victims.

how to counter: ifeel the extreme disdain way and short sentences usully work
"bullyed by jai shree ram" -
counters: "its a chant like aoa, is it bullying if you say aoa?"
"anyone who hears jai sree ram gets strength"

aoa? what is this?

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Another important lesson here is to not jump into disproving the opponents allegations till you're 100% sure. The Israelis made the mistake yesterday of immediately putting up some proof within the hour, only for that to be disproven, including our boy Hananya Naftali, and the official IDF handle itself. Jihadi "fact checkers" instantly jumped on the opportunity

It was only after that, that the Israelis came up with the real counter evidence to disprove the initial allegation. But by that time their own gaffe had caused serious confusion and doubt on their narrative, so they're still not able to decisively shake off the allegation in front of non muslims.

Do not jump in headfirst, verify what you're saying, even if it takes a few hours or a few days. That way you're not caught backtracking on your statements, and non muslims will believe you after the clarification. Muslims will remain with their lie, but it will become clear to everyone else that they're lying. Which is the goal.

THIS, AS A PERSON INTERESTED IN PROPAGANDA AND NARRATIVES - I would always advise you to wait and gain facts and always present videos and images with the caveat that it is not verified if you cannot confirm it. don't be hasty in disproving with counter-evidence that itself might not be true.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

You have to "out-shout" them my guy.
Your target audience is non-muslim "viewers" of your internet SM or media reports.

Greens are zombies anyway so no point trying to break them, it's the rest you need to go after, no sympathy for the greens from lefties or clueless people.

Always remeber there are all types of archetypes within even islamic majority countries - nerds, cowards, braves, fiesty, timid, empire men, peacniks, etc.

Always try to bleed away certain people of archetypical character traits that are amenable to qualities hated by islamists with the above-mentioned tactics.

try to woo the nerdish people using the modernization attack and the fun lovers with the fun angle of attack for example. I am sure the new age sheiks like MBS and the UAE ones are all influenced by western schools of thought and their culture abroad partly because they were already genetically and memetically predisposed to this type of influence and when exposed just went along with it.

Always try to skirmish their society like this where they might be vulnerable. Remember, most modernist civilizations are having issues with dealing with only the jihadi fanatic archetype, so reducing support for this archetype at home itself by turning brother against brother (see relatively secular Baathist against isis types) is a good strategy to nip these jihadi types in the bud, if not reduce their influence abroad by bogging them down internally.

Modernist nations can easily deal with nerds and business men and artists of islamic nations because they always tends to be subpar or tend to punch below their weight because of the latent influence of their culture which might have heavy islamic influence. This is why a secularized saudi arabia,UAE or any arba nation previoulsy under the influence of fundamental islam would not compete much with modernist ambitious states like India,China or developed nations in the west that still have tech because they will only be relatibely more modern compared to their past selves. They will still depend on India, China,Israel, The west for the medium and high tech stuff. This neutralizes their core strength of producing replaceable islamic jihdi archetypes reliably and in numbers and replaces it with a mediocre in their case of modernity which ultimately even contemporary soft european states can deal with/compete with as it is their domain not to mention seriously modernizing nations.

strategies to deal with the islamic jihadi archetype and it's costs and abilities must be the focus. without producing this achetype in numbers, the islamic living memeplex is dead in the water as it will have very less options to advance, because it definitely is advancing using the fun and modernization argument.

 

[shade]

aoa? what is this?

ALLAH O AKBAR
ALLAH O AKBAR
ALLAH O AKBAR

*explodes*

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Always remeber there are all types of archetypes within even islamic majority countries - nerds, cowards, braves, fiesty, timid, empire men, peacniks, etc.

Always try to bleed away certain people of archetypical character traits that are amenable to qualities hated by islamists with the above-mentioned tactics.

try to woo the nerdish people using the modernization attack and the fun lovers with the fun angle of attack for example. I am sure the new age sheiks like MBS and the UAE ones are all influenced by western schools of thought and their culture abroad partly because they were already genetically and memetically predisposed to this type of influence and when exposed just went along with it.

Always try to skirmish their society like this where they might be vulnerable. Remember, most modernist civilizations are having issues with dealing with only the jihadi fanatic archetype, so reducing support for this archetype at home itself by turning brother against brother (see relatively secular Baathist against isis types) is a good strategy to nip these jihadi types in the bud, if not reduce their influence abroad by bogging them down internally.

Modernist nations can easily deal with nerds and business men and artists of islamic nations because they always tends to be subpar or tend to punch below their weight because of the latent influence of their culture which might have heavy islamic influence. This is why a secularized saudi arabia,UAE or any arba nation previoulsy under the influence of fundamental islam would not compete much with modernist ambitious states like India,China or developed nations in the west that still have tech because they will only be relatibely more modern compared to their past selves. They will still depend on India, China,Israel, The west for the medium and high tech stuff. This neutralizes their core strength of producing replaceable islamic jihdi archetypes reliably and in numbers and replaces it with a mediocre in their case of modernity which ultimately even contemporary soft european states can deal with/compete with as it is their domain not to mention seriously modernizing nations.

strategies to deal with the islamic jihadi archetype and it's costs and abilities must be the focus. without producing this achetype in numbers, the islamic living memeplex is dead in the water as it will have very less options to advance, because it definitely is advancing using the fun and modernization argument.

It's like an army that has no offensive potential. We must first devise multiple if not at least one good strategy to contain and destroy this one good trick that Islam has (defense) and then devise ways to destroy it by dissolving it by making people reject it ultimately (offense) in that order.

 

[TringTringMonster]

Interestingly, no one has mentioned the role of social media sites like Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, whatsapp, Telegram, Twitter and Instagram. Most important of them all is Twitter. Controlling these sites from inside especially the moderation is the most important part in defeating the agendas of Jihadis. It's these platforms that amplify their voice. If we take away the platform, the voice is stifled. These platforms should be made hostile to any jihadi sympathizer. I believe if Saudis could control Twitter moderation team from inside, we can do a much better job at controlling these social media companies.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Interestingly, no one has mentioned the role of social media sites like Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, whatsapp, Telegram, Twitter and Instagram. Most important of them all is Twitter. Controlling these sites from inside especially the moderation is the most important part in defeating the agendas of Jihadis. It's these platforms that amplify their voice. If we take away the platform, the voice is stifled. These platforms should be made hostile to any jihadi sympathizer. I believe if Saudis could control Twitter moderation team from inside, we can do a much better job at controlling these social media companies.

Yes, that's why the thread is mostly aimed at strategies for Twitter, though other SM and even news articles can be discussed.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

For the first time, it seems that jihadi propaganda in the west is backfiring on them with even low information westerners, though the jihadis don't seem to realize it. As mentioned earlier, gaslighting can't work this time around, as the whole world saw hamas kill innocent civilians point blank. The videos kept coming out showing different civilians being killed at various locations. Not to mention the 150 hostages including children.

Them tearing down posters of children kidnapped by hamas was especially vile, and counter productive to their propaganda goals.

In this scenario, the jihadis made a strategic mistake, by prioritizing showing street power and letting out their genocidal goals bubble to the top. They just couldn't help it this time I guess. The crux of their mistake is that they let slip the mask of victimhood, which previously used to convince low information normies. Now a LOT of "tolerant" people have woken up to what the muzzies are.

This is also the first time some of them are facing professional and financial consequences for their jihad support. In previous incidents it used to be pushed under the rug.

For a tactical victory of intimidating jews in the west, they made a strategic mistake of letting themselves known to the general public for what they really are. More awakening needs to happen of course. People have short memories. But the last week is a definite fuck up for the jihadi's propaganda goals.

The takeaway here is that when they're shooting themselves in the foot, don't argue with them, but rather spread their words and actions for everyone to see. Visegrad 24 is doing exactly that, to great effect.

 

[Waanar]

Half truths. Lying by omission.

How often is this?
Some dumbfuck thief mulla gets killed by a mob for stealing and immediately, it becomes a "It was a moola so they killed him".


Also, "I don't care about other countries, I care about India" when you call into question the treatment of Hindus in muzz majority but immediately starts bleating and rioting for the katuas in Myanmar or Hamas or XYZ.
Hypocrisy is thy name.

Mostly, its a out-shouting contest. Mullas win because Al Jizzeera and the western media back their narrative with US using these rascals to tame Hindutva workers from stopping ricebag conversions and outright end any semblance of influence on India.

After all, mullas being clubbed together in the minority section with ricebags make it easy to cry wolf for both when Hindus start ghar wapsi campaigns or stop missionary funding.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Today's messages in the Israel-Hamas thread throws an interesting dillema regarding jihadi propaganda. And fortunately, it is in our own space, where we can practice. A member has shown up trying to pin the hospital bombing on Israel again, even though it has been thoroughly debunked and even the muzzies have slunk away from that story now that they know they can't get away with the lie.

After the lie has been debunked, the opponent (in this case) tries to rake it up again, ignoring evidence and simply de-railing the discussion. Whether or not he himself is a jihadi is irrelevent, this is a very common jihadi pattern.

The dilemma here is that if you ignore the opponent, you have allowed him to take over a space and change the narrative for any neutral or new 3rd party obervor. For example, a new visitor to the thread will see his claims, and if no one countered it, will tend to believe that there is some truth to these claims. On the other hand, if you do counter it, as I did, it runs the risk of de railing the discussion completely, as you have to address the same issues again and again to someone who doesn't want to see the truth, for the sake of keeping the record straight.

Which brings us to the common jihadi propaganda pattern: De-railing discussions by ignoring evidence and logic. Either you counter it for pages and pages, or you ignore it and let the lie go unchecked.

I would like to hear what others think would be good counter strategies in such scenarios.